Nasty Never Sounded So Good

Doug Johns was born February 25th, 1965 and grew up in Elyria, Ohio – a town about 1/9th the size of Cleveland, and about twenty miles west, right off of I-80. His family was very artistic, and the house he grew up in was always full of great music from Pat Metheny, Tower of Power (TOP), Ray Charles, Jimi Hendrix, Thelonious Monk, and even old blue eyes himself, Frank Sinatra. No musical stone left unturned, here. Doug’s musical style is just as diverse. He covers everything from the grittiest and greasiest funk to the sweetest melodic passages you’ve ever heard. He spends a lot of time sharing his gifts through recorded music, shows such as the NAMM show, and also through clinics and other special bassthemed events. I personally believe he has yet to receive due recognition for his abilities and contributions, so it’s a real pleasure to be able to feature Doug Johns as a player interview here in Bass Gear Magazine. If you treat yourself to some of his music, you’ll quickly understand. So, who’s the man behind the drum kit holding the bass and playing both at the same time? Let’s find out...

VS: Doug, let’s start with your early years. With the musical prowess of many of your family members, you pretty much grew up in kind of your own personal Juilliard school. But have you had any formal music instruction, and if so, what and where?

DJ: No, nothing anyone would call formal. Just on-the-gig instruction, if that makes sense. I’ve always been one to study up on what’s necessary for the next gig and just be as prepared as I can.

VS: You’ve commented that you started out on drums and have come to realize that experience - along with continuing to play them now - has been beneficial, and you recommend learning drums to all bass players. Do you have any advice on how someone who doesn’t have any experience with drums can work that into their practice or even performance?

DJ: Yes, everyone should experience drums, and not just from a mechanical standpoint. I mean, I wouldn’t expect everyone to necessarily be fluent on a drum kit – I know I’m not – but to understand that rhythm is the whole deal is what I’m getting at when I say to get behind a kit. I guess it doesn’t even have to be a drum kit, but just some way of tapping into your inner pulse, you know?That rhythm in your body. I guess you could work it into performance in a lot of different ways; something as simple as tapping your foot is definitely the place to start. From there, maybe vocalizing a drum beat, picking up a shaker or tambourine – all good stuff that forces you to be rhythmic.

VS: You mention picking up the bass out of necessity, but that you eventually bonded with the bass and even more, that it kind of “chose you.” Can you tell us how that came about?

DJ: Yeah, back in the day, everyone wanted to be the guitar player, you know?But there was just something about the feeling of that bass. The tautness of strings, the low sounds that penetrated my body… it just connected with me personally. I don’t know if I can really explain it, Vic. I just knew.

VS: I’ve read that your older brother plays guitar, which is also true for Victor Wooten, and he says he actually learned some of the techniques he uses on bass from him. Did you have the same experience?

DJ: Oh, definitely. I can vividly remember sitting outside of my brother’s guitar lessons when I was a little kid and just listening. I’d have to say that’s really how I started learning. I remember we’d get home, and my brother would practice what he’d learned that night. I was just dying to pick up the guitar after him and try to play what I’d heard from outside that lesson door. Sooner or later, I’d get my chance, and I’d end up interpreting what I’d heard… and my brother really had a lot of patience for showing me the notes in whatever chords he’d learned that day. And I started making music. Funny, I’m pretty sure this was right about the same time I was so crazy about playing drums. Makes me think I should change my answer to that question you asked a few minutes ago: I did have a kind of “formal” education, from my brother and my aunt, the drummer.

VS: Your first bass was some kind of Fender Jazz copy, and now your main bass is the ‘86 Pedulla Buzz which had frets installed. Did you have any other basses in between?

DJ: Yeah, I had a real cool Ibanez… man, I can’t remember the name of it. But it had a really small headstock. Oh, and I also had a Gibson “Grabber” bass somewhere in there… the one with the sliding pickup? Now, that was cool!

VS: I always thought your Buzz was an MVP, which I guess it basically is, since that’s the only difference between the current models as far as I know. I also understand you have a new MVP you’re getting acclimated to. How would you compare the two?

DJ: Hmm, yeah, I guess I can understand that – a lot of cats think I play an MVP.Those frets I had installed actually came out of circumstance. At the time I got that Buzz bass, I was on the road with this awesome funk band. And one day, they were pretty much like, “Doug, we like the fretless sound, but if you wanna keep this gig, you’re gonna have to get a fretted bass.” [laughing] So I sent it to Mike [Pedulla], and he put frets in it for me.

But yes, I do have a new one… another Buzz bass, to be exact. It’s pretty much an exact replica of the original I bought back in ‘86. I got it off of eBay – where else?And of course, I sent it right off to Mike to have frets put in it. Maybe someday I’ll get a Buzz bass and keep it fretless, but I just wanted an exact duplicate – or as close as I could get to an exact duplicate – of my current bass. Granted, I believe that no two handcrafted instruments can ever be exactly the same. That’s the way any art should be. But anyway, I’ve been developing a new relationship with my new bass, and it’s going great.

What’s funny, Vic, is that my new bass plays waaaay better from a mechanics standpoint, but I’m just so used to my old, worn-in bass that I’m still working on bringing the new one to the stage. It’s kind of like an old, broken-in shoe, you know?

I think a good musician should be able to play on anything, but I’ve still got some adjustment period stuff to work through.It’s probably about 99% mental, to be honest.

VS: It was an interesting story about the funk band helping you finance that Buzz in 86-87. How long was it before you got another bass, and what was it? When did you first start working with 5 and 6-string basses?

DJ: Yeah, I’m so grateful to those guys for pulling together like that. Gosh, I’m guessing here, but I think it was something like 10 years before I got another one… yeah, probably about 10 years. It was a 6-string.

VS: I heard some wonderful fretless work on your Tobias Growler 5-string in some of your recordings, such as on the “Doug Johns” CD. I understand you also have a Fodera 6-string and a custom Jon Hill bass. How much are those involved in your playing schedule, and are there any recordings you can recommend that feature either or both of them?

DJ: Thanks, Vic. I love the fretless, and sitting here talking about it makes me think I really do need to spend more time on it. I guess I could say that about the Fodera and the Hill, too. Did you know Jon Hill is a good friend of mine? He lives here in the Cleveland area, now heading up Bootleg Guitars, and besides being a great luthier, he’s always been able to put up with my attention to detail concerning instruments. But anyhow, back to your question, I don’t play all of my guitars as much I’d like or should, but you can definitely find all of them in any of my recordings. My Pedulla definitely appears the most, but I don’t think I can really rattle off which one was used where,though. A peek at the liner notes might narrow it down a little?

VS: You’ve mentioned that you’ve played guitar before. If you’re staying involved with guitar now, how are you integrating it with what you do?

DJ: I like to use the guitar as a writing tool – specifically, a nylon acoustic. I’ve taken that guitar with me on hiking trips and even used it as a lean-to prop on the beach once [chuckle]. I love the wide neck and the classic sound. Other than that, of course I’m a huge fan of a good ole Tele, Strat, Les Paul. Nothin’ like some choppin’ funky James Brown chords, know what I’m sayin’? I just love playing the funky rhythmic guitar parts in my recordings… It’s like adding hot sauce.

VS: What is your current bass rig?

DJ:

DR Nickel Sunbeams – gauges 40-
60-80-100.

Two 1986 Pedulla Buzz Basses with frets put in them. Both have stock Bartolini pickups with a Bartolini TMB preamp installed.

Fodera Monarch 6 – used primarily for recording, but occasionally shows up at live performances

Jon Hill Custom Guitars – 4-string custom
Genz-Benz Shuttle 3.0, 6.0 & 9.0 – currently touring with the Shuttle 9.0

Genz-Benz Uber 4x10 – one 4-ohm version and two 8-ohm versions

Dunlop Q95 wah wah, Envelope Filter, and Bass Fuzz Octaver

Pigtronix EP1 and EP2, Disnortion Radial Engineering J48 & JDX DI’s

VS: Have you done work with alternate tunings?

DJ: You know what? I haven’t. That’s something I’ve always wanted to dive in to but just haven’t. Maybe someday… But not yet.

VS: What about pickup blending? Seems like a lot of your work is fully or nearly fully blended most of the time, but I have heard bridge-favored a lot as well. What’s your “home base” on that?

DJ: Good ears. You’re pretty much spoton with your assessment, Vic. I basically have three settings I favor: Both pickups wide open, A little more bridge than neck pickup – for that tight tone like on Satchmo, or full neck pickup like on HHP from my first CD. But my home base as you put it, Vic, would probably be both pickups equally 100%. That’s my most common setting.

VS: What about EQ? How do you typically set your tone controls or instrument EQ, and what about bass rig EQ?

DJ: I think this is mostly answered in the previous question, with the exception of the two tone controls for the individual pickups, which I run 100% also. On my Pedulla, my pot arrangement is bass and treble knobs at 100% full, volume at unity, and the last knob is a pickup blend. On my Genz-Benz Shuttle 9.0, bass and treble knobs are at about 12:00, and in the mids I cut 12kHz minus15dB. That just seems to work for my particular bass/hands, etc. Actually, I recently did a video for Genz- Benz showing a detailed view of my amp settings – it’s on the Genz web site.

VS: How about your bass setup? You’re definitely into using your frets as a significant part of your sound, which is really great. How is your bass typically set up, and is the truss rod cover missing on your Buzz just because it’s been lost over the years, or because you tweak it often to keep your action “perfect?”

DJ: Boy, you’ve got me figured out on this one, Vic. The truss rod cover was intentionally removed. Because I’m traveling a lot, I always have to do minor adjustments – you know, humidity, dryness, exposure. Actually, depending on where I’m traveling, sometimes I do an adjustment even before I leave home… definitely a benefit of the long relationship I’ve had with my Pedulla.

But you know, it’s not just because I “know” my Pedulla so well that I make those little tweaks – I’d do it with any bass.I really believe that a musician should have a handle on how to adjust their instrument.So many people are afraid of the truss rod and all that, but it’s not really any mystery.I can’t tell you how many instruments I’ve picked up that had a great feel but maybe didn’t get played as much as they should just because of an adjustment needed in the setup. That’s why I always try to explain basic truss rod science at my clinics… people are so intimidated by it. But it’s not that scary once you understand how it works.

But back to your original question, Vic, and my frets, I just like a really flat neck with barely any counter-bow, or relief. It just works for me. Yeah, it’s noisier, so you have to be conscious of that. Like, say I have a recording date; I might put a little more relief in the neck to sort of clean up the notes a bit. But at the same time, I love all those “things in between.” They help to add up to my sound. It’s a Pedulla Buzz bass, right? [laughs].

VS: I’ve seen a video where you talk about the “in betweens” regarding the notes in a bass line. I’m a HUGE believer in that and how it can bring a bass line to life. Tell us how you arrived at that style, or at least realized the importance of them?

DJ: Yeah, that’s a good follow-up. I wouldn’t say I ever consciously arrived at that style – I’ve just always seen a stringed instrument as naturally percussive, and I tend to beat on my basses like they’re drums. There are a lot of neat sounds you can come up with by that approach. A lot of the time, those little sounds in between are just my body getting into the groove, so I embrace them instead of trying to cover them up. I think it adds to the overall rhythm of the groove. Sometimes you might get a weird sound – like slapping the fret with a string – but if you’re willing to play with it and it’s musical, then I think it’s great!

VS: You’ve commented that Hammond B-3 left-hand bass lines have strongly influenced your style. In what way?

DJ: I’m a huge TOP guy, and a lot of my years coming up were in Hammond trios.Hammond bass lines – left hand or foot pedals – just seem to move and groove so hard. I just love it! It’s so fluent and percussive… moving the chords in such a complimentary way… It’s hard to describe. I’d say you could almost learn to groove harder if you listen exclusively to killer Hammond players. Is there such a thing? Grooving harder?

VS: You and drummer Chris Ceja have a very (sur)real connection, which is obvious to anyone. How did your clearly benevolent relationship start, and what was the key to its longevity?

DJ: You know, Chris and I met years ago… probably close to 30 years now. So, we have time together, and nothing beats time spent with a musician. You start to gelatinize – yep, gelatinize… I always wanted to use that word somewhere. But anyway, we started to gelatinize in a way that was almost subconscious. I’ve always said that Chris is the other half of my musical brain, and that’s really not a joke.

But on the other hand, Vic, I think anyone can relate when I say you’ve got to be careful about the possibility of stagnating in a long-term relationship. Even though Chris and I will always play in some capacity, he needed some time away this year to pursue other endeavors, and that made me realize it was time to open my mind to other players and possibilities.And musical outlooks, you know?

It was tough at first. I think I forgot the importance of a different, fresh approach.I’ve been playing with a new drummer for a few months now – Jordan Simmons (JSimms) – and it’s been really, really cool. Not only is J really talented, but he’s got a different take on my tunes that I probably never would have considered before we played together. And it’s opened me up to all sorts of new ideas… I’m even playing a couple of dates this year where I play with drummers I pretty much don’t know at all. Exciting and scary… two good emotions to have when making music!

VS: You’ve worked with a lot of very well known people, but I’d like to ask you about a couple in particular. Tell us a little bit about your experiences working with Victor Wooten and Chuck Rainey.

DJ: You’re going to need a whole issue for that one! Man, what do I say about two great guys like them? For Victor and Chuck, I have to say that – even though they’re absolute monster players – that my first thought of either cat isn’t really connected to bass. I think about them both as truly great human beings. I don’t know what else to say. I’m grateful – and really feel privileged – for the time I’ve spent with them.

VS: I’ve heard many tracks with effects, octaves, fuzz, envelopes, and maybe more. Which effects boxes do you use most often?

DJ: Without a doubt, my favorite effect is the good ole wah-wah. Funny thing is, up until… I don’t know, maybe 6 or 7 years ago, I never used any effects. But I found that they’re fun toys to play with in a duo setting. They just add that extra color.

VS: With each release, you seem to refine and hone your sound, especially with your latest release, Stank, in October2010. The grooves are funky and nasty, but also very melodic and harmonic, and some downright sweet passages. I hear strong influences of funk, jazz combo and big band, rock, folk, and even some country influence in particular on a tune ironically named “Funk Tree.” What was the inspiration for that song?

DJ: [Laughing] It’s good to hear you say that, Vic. Thank you. I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks there’s some growth going on. But I just love that chickenpickin’ thang. And playing it on the bass is just fun! I’m working on another “pickin” kind of tune right now – I’ve always loved the acoustic-electric pickers. So much rhythm! The title of that song was actually meant to be a play on words: Instead of “country” it’s Funktree… get it? Had to be careful with the spelling on that one, though [laughing], and now everyone thinks I’m referring to a tree.

VS: Also, the last track on Stank, “With You in Mind,” is particularly beautiful.May we ask about the inspiration for that song?

DJ: My wife, Jennifer. That song was something I just threw down years ago – a total stream of consciousness, one-take recording. But the life moment behind it is something I prefer to keep private. It’s just “mine.”

Although I might regret saying this, my wife actually wanted me to name it Jenn Song, and campaigned that name pretty hard for a long time. But eventually, over breakfast one morning, we were brainstorming about song titles, and she suggested I call it With You in Mind. The name stuck.

VS: You do a lot with clinics and bassspecific gatherings like BassQuake, Bass Player Live, Bass Slam, BassBash, Bass Fest, NAMM show booth performances, etc. You’ve commented it’s tough to do the 4-5 piece group thing, but hope to have a full swing band to do some select dates. I’ve seen you do your impressive duo and solo work, which included some really cool work, such as slap versions of James Brown “I feel Good”, Jaco’s “Continuum”. However, I would love to see the full swing band project, which at least instrumentally, would probably be a little more representative of your CD releases. Can you tell us about how that’s going?

DJ: Well, I’ll tell ya, Vic, it’s a tough road taking the full band out, even for select dates. The duo actually only came about from economic necessity – my vision has always been to play my music with a full swingin’ band. I agree it would be more representative of my recordings, and I’ve been working on ways to make it economically feasible.

Earlier in the year, the full band was actually a priority goal for me. I’ve had just about all of my music charted – by the way, those charts will all be available for sale on my website here pretty soon – but as I started to crunch the numbers on a full band gig (flights, hotels, musicians, all of that), I realized I just flat can’t afford it. I don’t know what else to say.

It’s not like I’ve ever been into the music for money, but fact is that I’m not independently wealthy, and clubs aren’t paying an independent jazz/funk artist the kind of cash it takes to get everyone to the gig and treat them fairly. As a band leader, I feel I’ve got an obligation to make sure everyone is comfortable and gets paid for their work and their time. It’s just the right thing to do… and unfortunately, my budget just doesn’t allow it right now.

But you mentioned the bass-oriented events, Vic, and I’ve gotta say it’s a GREAT time for bass right now. With all of these bass events, we’re actually making our own scene, and they are providing me with the forum I need to get the music out there, which is really what it’s about. I’m not going to give up on the full band performances – they WILL happen – but for now I’d rather play the 20-30 duo gigs I can afford over the course of a year as opposed to just 3 or 4 full band performances. It’ll happen, just not right now.

VS: You’ve been to Pedulla recently to discuss a bass we’re reviewing in this issue, and I’m going to assume to discuss other things as well. Can you tell us more about that trip, and what it’s like to work with Mike?

DJ: Yes! First off, I’m not gonna lie: I was like a kid in a candy store seeing all the Pedulla basses and how Mike handcrafts each and every one. It’s funny, a lot of people think I get free basses from Mike – I don’t know why – and that’s just not the case. Honestly, I wouldn’t want it that way. Being a craftsman myself, I know the hours and passion involved in creating art, and I truly believe people should be paid for that. Mike especially – he’s a master.

I’ve known and been dealing with Mike for 25 years now, but we’ve become much closer over the last 6 or 7 years… talk about birds of a feather. I just feel such a kindred spirit with Mike, like we’re both on the same page. We’re into a lot of the same things, especially when it comes to our love and respect for nature. That’s a really big deal for me.

But one of the more interesting things about the time I spent at Pedulla had nothing to do with nature or basses. Mike is also a pilot, and he took me up for a flight around Cape Cod. Talk about awesome! I’ve always had this sort of secret dream to be a pilot, so I was just loving the experience of being right there by the controls. Very cool.

But back to the Pedulla basses, I had the chance to play a couple, including the new Nuance. You know I’m a creature of habit and generally won’t stray too far from my ’86 Buzz bass, but this Nuance was something else. It was honestly one of the most responsive instruments I’ve ever played. I was really impressed. And of course, I dug around in the back room for some old MVP or Buzz basses, just in case there was one there I might have a chance to rescue [laughing]. No luck, though.

VS: I read on your website that you love to build racecars. I never got into it nearly as deeply as you are, but I’m an old school gear head from days gone by. One thing I recall about those days is working on cars typically puts knuckles and fingers at risk; ever worry about that?

DJ: Yeah, it’s a constant threat, no doubt.I work with band saws, cutters, mills, sanders, welders… and from time to time, I do get “bit.” But hey, it’s the nature of the business. You have a day where you’re mind might not be quite as sharp on the task at hand, and whoahahaha – blood hits the floor. I try to always be careful, but I’ve had a time or two where there was blood on the strings at a gig from some fabricating injury. But I don’t ever consider giving it up. I was doing it yesterday.

VS: I always ask an interviewee what they’d tell a fan if one were to seek them out for advice. If someone were to ask you for your thoughts on how to develop a style of their own, what would you tell them?

DJ: Rhythm and musicality. Those are the words that instantly pop into my mind when I hear you ask that question. Like we were talking about earlier, this is a great time for bass. I get to meet a lot of players out there with these ridiculous chops, yet I’d say maybe only 1 out of 10 of them is truly musical. I don’t know how to say it. Just because someone’s selling a digital recorder doesn’t mean you’re ready to be using it, know what I mean?

You’ve just got to put time into the instrument, and I mean years and years.Sure, there are some wunderkind prodigies out there, but for the rest of us, years of playing and practicing is the only way to find a true voice of your own.You’ve gotta get into every different musical situation you can find, screw up, do good, and screw up again. That’s how you find your voice.

Finding your style is more about how you react to running out of water 2 miles into a 10 mile desert hike than it is about learning every hot bass lick you can.We’re talking about life here, the rhythm of your soul, and it’s a journey that never ends. Get out there and jam with someone and believe in yourself while you’re doing it. If you don’t, it’ll show.

VS: Thanks, Doug. It’s been both a pleasure and an education, just like every time I hear you play.

Folks, do yourselves a favor and pick up a copy of his latest release, Stank, or maybe even his previous releases Pocket Fulla Nasty or his self-titled CD. Heck, buy all three, and watch out for any events where you might be able to see this man perform. You’ll be glad you did.